DR. ANIKA WARREN Hello, my name is Dr. Anika Warren, and I

DR. ANIKA WARREN Hello, my name is Dr. Anika Warren, and I currently work at Teacher’s College, Columbia University in the Counseling Psychology Program. The counseling segment you are about to view were conducted with an individual who volunteered to share her personal experiences and career concerns as you further your understanding of career counseling and development.
01:20Erika An African-American female seeking career clarity.
DR. ANIKA WARREN This training video is based upon the integration of multiple theories and models of career counseling and development. The client in this video, an African-American female, is seeking counseling because she is considering a career change. The video is designed to provide students with examples of using career theories and models in session, administering career assessments and integrating assessment results with the client’s background, interest, values, skills, priorities, and goals.
02:05Career Counseling Skills 1 Exploring the client’s unique personal and professional background.
DR. ANIKA WARREN Exploring the client’s unique personal and professional background is an essential part of career counseling. Oftentimes, clients come to career counseling because they’re interested in completing career assessments that will help them determine the most appropriate academic or career path to take. To help the client make informed decisions is important that the counselor understand the client’s unique background and the multiple factors that influence the client’s academic or career path of interest.
02:45DR. ANIKA WARREN I was wondering if you could tell me a little bit about what brings you here.
02:50ERIKA Sure. I am, well, I’m currently working, ah, for a non-profit and I’m looking to, uhm, change careers now. And so, I’m looking for some recommendations and feedback on some possible path that I might be able to take, so I wanted to talk to you about that.
03:05DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm. Great. Could you tell me, one thing I’d like to do when I start, ah, working with clients on career views is I’d like to hear a little bit about their background, so could you tell me a little bit about what was like growing up, where you grew up, with whom, (crosstalk)
03:20ERIKA Sure.
DR. ANIKA WARREN what your experiences were like?
ERIKA I, I grew up in California, in Northern California in, ah, Berkeley.
03:25DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA And my parents were married until I was fourteen… (crosstalk)
03:30DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …after which time they divorced. But up into that point, my father was working as a dentist and my mother was working as a lab technician.
03:40DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA So, uhm, I was consistently exposed to, to the healthcare field. Uhm, I would go with my father into his office and watch him deal with patients. I would, uhm, sit with my mother and watch her sort of analyze some of her, uhm, subjects and it was really, it was always interesting to me to watch my parents work. I used to be always be really be proud of them, proud to have them as parents .
04:05DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA Uhm, but we were, you know, my parents really stressed education, always, you know, go as far as you can, (crosstalk)
04:10DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA with your education because, ah, well my father was the first person in his family to go to college, (crosstalk)
04:20DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA and my mother , uhm, I’m not sure if she was the first person to finish college or not but it took her a while… (crosstalk)
04:25DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …to finish college. And so, I think they wanted something better for, for my brother and I… (crosstalk)
04:30DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …and so they always stressed school and doing well and getting good grades and that was always a bit part of our, uhm, household. And they were always there to help with homework… (crosstalk)
04:35DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …so it was, it was a pretty positive experience in that, in that way.
04:40DR. ANIKA WARREN Okay. That’s interesting. You talked a little bit about, uhm, school and the importance that they stressed on school and education, and I’m wondering, could you tell me a little bit about your school experiences, what subjects you enjoyed, how you felt about school in general?
04:55ERIKA Sure. Uh, when I was growing up, even through college, I think that the, the things that made me happiest… (crosstalk)
05:00DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …were always the more, uhm, artistic courses. You know, I did a lot of theater when I was in school, uhm, in elementary school all the way up through college. I was always very interested in the arts, and, uhm, I, you know, I, I thrived in that even though I was, I did well academically as well, but I always really felt comfortable and it was light being in the arts, whether it was a class or whether it was an extracurricular activity or even something outside of school… (crosstalk)
05:30DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …that was, I always enjoyed that. (crosstalk)
ERIKA But I did well on most of my other subjects, uhm, so. (crosstalk)
05:35DR. ANIKA WARREN Hmm. Tell me a little bit about what subject you like the least.
05:40ERIKA Well, it changed. (laughs) It started out being, uhm, all the sciencey stuff.
05:45DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA Didn’t like any of that. And as I got older, uhm, even post college because after college I, when I was in college I didn’t take any science classes. I sort of skirted the ah, requirements.
05:55DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA And after college it was then that I decided that I wanted to go into the healthcare field and so I needed to take some science classes. And so I did one of those post bac, (crosstalk)
06:05DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA post baccalaureate pre-med programs where I just did nothing but science and I really liked it then. So it kinda, that kinda flipped. I started out just not being able to do science or math and not being very good at it to really liking it and once I’ve found that I enjoyed it, then I found that I can pride myself more and I did, I did better.
06:20DR. ANIKA WARREN And you mentioned college. Could you tell me a little bit about where you attended and what you majored in?
06:25ERIKA Uh hmm, I attended school in Atlanta for college. I went to Spelman College… (crosstalk)
06:30DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …and I double-majored in French Literature and in Philosophy. And the decision to do a double major came from, uhm, the idea that I felt like I needed to do something more than French cause I grew up in a bilingual school setting where I was learning French and English at the same time, so majoring in French sort of seemed like I wasn’t really earning my education. And so, I though if I double-majored and added something onto it, then I would feel more at ease. So I, I double-majored in philosophy and that was, that was sort of prompted by a course that I had taken in ethics and the professor was amazing. He really just brought the whole thing to life and that prompted me to, ah, become a Philosophy major and some of the classes that I took were interesting, ah, a lot of feminist perspective being at an all-women’s college, and some more like history or philosophy and some ancient, modern philosophy and things like that. And then as I got further into the curriculum, we started to focus a lot more on the specifics of feminist philosophy, Black feminist philosophy, and it, it got to be really interesting.
07:35DR. ANIKA WARREN Okay. You said quite a few things that I wanna touch on. One of the things I wanna touch on is you said you selected or you decided to choose, ah, philosophy, partly because of the professor that motivated you but also because you wanted to feel like you were earning your education. (crosstalk)
07:50ERIKA Yeah.
DR. ANIKA WARREN What does that mean?
ERIKA Well, I think, uhm, I think some of that has to do with the fact that my, before, before I went to Spelman, there, there was a period maybe about five or six months before that, uhm, where I thought that I wasn’t gonna be able to go to school there because the tuition was higher than any of the California, sort of, public school… (crosstalk)
08:10DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA tuitions. And my parents were feeling like they might not be able to help me or afford to do it and, uhm, so I was, I was thinking that I might end up at one of the Californian schools, and when it turned out that, uhm, I got some of the scholarships that I applied for and my parents did a couple of parent loans for school and everything sort of worked out. It all fell into place. And so being there, I guess, you know cause my father always, he, he honed in on the financial aspect of living, you know, and he’s, he’s a survivor. He grew up on a farm. Like I said before he’s the only one that went to college and he has been someone throughout life where he has really counted pennies a lot and he, uhm, he instilled that in us, you know, the need to count pennies, the need to save money, (crosstalk)
08:55DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA the need to budget. And so when I went to college I was really conscious of, you know, how much it cost for me to be there.
09:05DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA And because of that I felt like I really needed to work extra hard, I guess, in order to, in order to be able to earn it.
09:10Career Counseling Skill 1: Discussion Questions 1. What are some of the career counseling theories and assessments that informed the counselor’s questions? 2. What information has the client provided to help you determine future counseling questions, directions, and interventions? 3. What did you learn about the client’s values, interests and abilities? 4. What are some of the counseling skills used in this segment? Career Counseling Skill 1: Comments Leong & Hartung have a five stage model for incorporating culture into career counseling. They suggest that the counselor must understand how the client’s background (cultural, familial, social, and educational) has influenced the client’s perceptions of their vocational problems, options, and decisions. Career Counseling Skill 2 Understanding past decision making experiences
DR. ANIKA WARREN Understanding past decision-making experiences is a critical aspect of career counseling and development.
10:25DR. ANIKA WARREN You also mentioned earlier when you were talking about your experiences at Spelman and studying philosophy that there was a, you had a great deal of interest in feminist work and, (crosstalk)
10:35ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA WARREN uhm, African-American or Black history related work. (crosstalk)
10:40ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA WARREN And I’m wondering, how do you think that might have influenced your career decisions?
ERIKA I think, uhm, interestingly, I know that having, I think having gone to Spelman, first of all, ‘coz it’s an all-woman’s college, there, there was some part of that that got me interested more and, uhm, feminist thinking and feminist values and feminist education and thinking more about woman-centered ideas and, ah, possibilities for my future. And so, I’ve always, since then, been very balanced toward, uhm, helping women and wanting to improve the lives of women… (crosstalk)
11:15DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …just given some of, you, know, our history and our background. And so, uhm, I, I believe that that is significantly affected me and significantly sort of led to me to where I am now. I work for an organization now that helps to improve the lives of women in Africa. And so, a lot of that is sort of based on my background and some of the things that I’ve learned up until this point and some of the things that I’ve been exposed to… (crosstalk)
11:40DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …up until this point. (crosstalk)
ERIKA So I, I do believe that that has a big, a big, big part to play in that.
11:45DR. ANIKA WARREN You’ve mentioned that, uhm, many of the women that you have worked with at Spelman, because it’s all-woman’s, women’s, school that’s also all-black, (crosstalk)
11:55ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA WARREN primarily people of color, (crosstalk)
ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA WARREN African-American women’s school, (crosstalk)
12:00ERIKA Uh hmm, yeah.
DR. ANIKA WARREN and I’m wondering, how do you think the racial piece might have played into roles that you take on?
12:05ERIKA Well I, I actually think that’s, that’s sort of an interesting question because the, the work that I’m doing now is something that’s not sort of typical of African-Americans. Uhm, I, I work in, it’s, it’s work in development, so, trying to develop sort of the health sector of developing countries. And when, you know, when I’m sort of going to conferences or meetings related to the work that I do I don’t see a lot of people like me. Uhm, and I think that that is primarily related to the fact that when people decide to go into sort of the field that I’m in, which is health care, they don’t necessarily go to nonprofit route. Like I was saying before, my father was the first person to go to college and because he sort of got out of the rut of, of living in a situation where people were in the cycle of poverty that he wanted to go above and beyond and so he went into dental school. So his idea of going into health care wasn’t just working at a community level and community healthcare and, and, uhm, helping people without really making a lot of money. He really wanted to, ah, improve his economic status… (crosstalk)
13:20DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …and I think that that’s the case for a lot of African-Americans because, you know, we think about going into professional areas and really, you know, that sort of medicine, becoming a doctor, or going to school to become a lawyer or engineer, that sort of these high level, uhm, professions. And working in a nonprofit sector where you’re not really making a lot of money, it’s not something that is, that I’ve found to be very common with us just because we had to take care of our families , we have to, sometimes, you know, support our extended family , and you know, the options are more to make money, improve our economics… (crosstalk)
13:55DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …so that there’s some stability in our family rather than helping populations that we don’t even really have any relation to, (crosstalk)
14:00DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA like, helping people in Africa. Well I don’t, pe-, most people don’t see… (crosstalk)
14:05DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …people in Africa ever. (laughs) So. (crosstalk)
DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm, Uh hmm. So you were talking about the different career decisions that you see African-Americans as a community, a larger community within the US making, it sounds like you’re primarily revering to African-Americans who have had the opportunity and the access to higher levels of education… (crosstalk)
14:20ERIKA That’s right.
DR. ANIKA WARREN …per se. And those, seek that particular population or those populations as not necessarily going into the nonprofit sector… (crosstalk)
14:25ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA WARREN …so much and needing to help those who may be, may have not had the higher-level education or opportunity? (crosstalk)
14:30ERIKA Yeah, yeah. That’s been my experience.
Career Counseling Skill 2: Discussion Questions 1. What have you learned about the client’s decision making experiences? 2. What have you learned about the client’s decision making skills? 3. How might understanding that client’s past decision making experiences inform your work as a career counselor? Career Counseling Skill 2: Comments Enhancing decision-making skill is an intervention that requires effective and cognitive exploration by the client with assistance from the counselor. Before facilitating career decision making processes with the client, the counselor should be aware of how the client makes decisions and the extent to which the client feels stuck when making decisions. Some clients may fear the decision making process (“zeteophobia”). Clients may need help (a) exploring their interests, values and abilities, (b) identifying potential career directions, and (c) implementing their career goals. Career Counseling Skill 3 Understanding how social roles and life experiences have influenced the client’s career development
DR. ANIKA WARREN Understanding how social roles and life experiences have influenced the client’s career development is essential as the counselor determines the appropriate treatment plan and counseling strategies to use.
15:45DR. ANIKA WARREN When you think of the professional roles and decisions that you’ve made, I’m wondering if you could speak a little bit about how being a woman has influenced these roles? Messages you’ve received… (crosstalk)
16:00ERIKA Uh-huh.
DR. ANIKA WARREN …about what women do?
ERIKA Uh-huh.
DR. ANIKA WARREN Who they are?
ERIKA Uh-huh, uhm, it’s interesting because I think that, that my family history, uhm, you know my father grew up in North Carolina. His family grew up on a farm there, all sharecroppers, and my mother’s family is from the West Indies. So, they came from two varying backgrounds and my, uhm, my grandparents on my mother’s side were, they worked in, you know, my, my grandfather was a doorman in a building and my grandmother didn’t work… (crosstalk)
16:30DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh-huh.
ERIKA and those roles, ah, were very typical of sort, at the time, and my mother , being a product of that environment, also, uhm, I wouldn’t say she took on a more traditional role necessarily but there was definitely, there was definitely a balance toward my mother as far as taking care of us and cooking dinner and things like that. And I think that, ah, tsk, I’m sorry that’s the best one(ph). It’s not really, I don’t know how to, I don’t know how to answer that I might need to think about that. (crosstalk)
17:05DR. ANIKA WARREN Okay. (crosstalk)
ERIKA A little bit.
DR. ANIKA WARREN Why don’t you think about that and we can talk about it the next time we meet?
17:10ERIKA Okay.
DR. ANIKA WARREN Uhm, how, how about, uhm, your race or your ethnicity being Black or being African American, how have those reference groups or how those parts of you… (crosstalk)
17:20ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA WARREN …influence, you know, your decision to help others, to give back to communities, to do work in Africa, do you think there might be an influence?
17:25ERIKA Yeah, definitely. We, uhm, when I was seven years old, we went and lived overseas in Africa for two years. My dad was working at the university in Kenya and that was my first exposure to Africa, developing country, uhm, real, really humanly poor people, uhm, and not that that doesn’t exist here, but just, it was my first time being exposed to people who don’t even have the most basic means. Like access to education. You know, some people get pulled out of school when they’re seven years old because they need to work at home, (crosstalk)
ERIKA because there are not enough people bringing in money… (crosstalk)
ERIKA …to the household or just basic access to health services… (crosstalk)
18:10DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …you know, basic health services that didn’t exist and you know dealing with women who really had no voice at all about their decisions about their families.
18:20DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
18:25ERIKA And I didn’t, I don’t think that I internalized all of that as a seven-year-old living in Kenya but it definitely was something I was exposed to and I think as the time went on and the more I, the more sort of exposure I got to those types of cultures I realized how that was an issue.
18:40DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA Uhm, we were there and so that was sort of the beginning of it for me.
18:45DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA And I think having had that experience it sort of created this thirst in me to wanna be a, you know, wanna experience other cultures and other traditions… (crosstalk)
18:55DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …and other environments, and, uhm, I think, I think because of that that’s really where it all sort of stemmed from.
Career Counseling Skill 3: Discussion Questions 1. What career theories and models come to mind as you listen to the counselors work with the client? 2. What are some potential next direction that a counselor might consider when working with a client similar to Erika? What is the rational for the directions you are considering? 3. How have personal, contextual, and cultural factors influenced Erika? Career Counseling Skill 3: Comments and Questions Super’s hallmark is that career development is a process of making several decisions, which culminates in vocational choices that represent an implementation of one’s self-concept. Considering what you know about the client’s life transitions from birth to death, roles, social determinates, where would you locate the client on Super’s dimensions of the Life Career Rainbow? Career Counseling Skill 3 Comments and Questions Using Super’s lexicon, explore how the following terms related to what the client has shared this far? Life course – the meaning sociologists inscribe on career when they define it as a sequence of occupations in the life of an individual. Social roles – the duties and rewards a culture assigns and ascribes to its members based on variables such as sex and race. Life space – denotes the collection of social roles enacted by an individual, as well as the cultural theatres in which these roles are played. Self-concept – a collection of perceptions that are integrated and coherent. Career Counseling Skill 4 Using career visualization activities
DR. ANIKA WARREN Using career visualization activities to illuminate the client’s priorities, values, interests and goals is often an awareness-building activity for the client and provides both the client and the counselor valuable insight into the client’s self-concept.
21:10DR. ANIKA WARREN I’ve been thinking a lot about some of the experiences you had while growing up as well as some of the roles, and I like to also have clients experience kind of a discovery process. (crosstalk)
21:25ERIKA Uh-huh.
DR. ANIKA WARREN I think that a big part of this career work we’re doing is really about discovering who you are in different ways and seeing how various aspects of your interests, your values, your talents, your goals, how they overlap… (crosstalk)
21:35ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA WARREN …with both your past experiences, your current experiences and your future experiences.
21:40ERIKA Uh-huh.
DR. ANIKA WARREN So one thing I really want to spend some time doing is kind of illuminating who you are and assessing so that you can kind of concretize or figure out what might be more appropriate for you as you move forward. So I’m wondering if you’d be willing to participate in what I call a guided discovery or a visuali-, visualization exercise.
22:00ERIKA Yeah, that sounds really nice.
22:05DR. ANIKA WARREN Okay, great. What I’m gonna ask you to do is to lay your feet flat on the ground then to put your hands there. Ah, well before you begin, I like you to put one hand on your abdomen, whichever one you prefer, breathing deeply in your nose and out your mouth. I’d like you to close your eyes as you do that, breathing deeply in your nose and out your mouth. Now, at any time during this activity, if you feel uncomfortable please let me know and feel free to open your eyes. What I’m gonna do now, oh, you’re not supposed to open your eyes now. (crosstalk)
22:40ERIKA Oh.
DR. ANIKA WARREN I mean when you feel uncomfortable. Let’s start over. Now, I’d like you to put one hand on your abdomen, breathing deeply in your nose and out your mouth. Do this about three times.
DR. ANIKA WARREN Great. Now keeping your eyes closed, what I’ll do now is I’m going to walk you through a series of activities and I want you to be as creative and free and open as you want. If at any time while I’m speaking you feel uncomfortable, please let me know. Other than that I’d just like you to listen to the words that I speak and let your mind run free. There’s no need to answer or to respond until I tell you to open your eyes. Do you think you could do that?
23:30ERIKA Yes.
DR. ANIKA WARREN Okay. Now I’d like you to imagine yourself waking up anywhere you’d like to wake up and you’re on your way to work this day. So as you wake up and you realize it’s time to go to work I want you to take note of your surroundings. Look at the clock, notice, what time is it? Look around the room if there’s someone there with you. Who is that person? If not, what else is in that room? Now I’d like you to think about going to work, lying in your bed or lying on your floor, your sofa or wherever you fell asleep that night. Think about going to work and you’re gonna work wherever you want to, you can do anything you wanna do that day. You can start at any time you want and you can wear anything you desire. As you think about work, what thoughts come up for you? Now think, now what feelings are there? What are you feeling? Any other feelings? Any other thoughts? As you prepare to go to work, what do you do? Go out of bed and put on jeans or do you take a shower first? So thinking about preparing for work, what are all the activities you do and what are the emotions you experience while doing them? What are the leading thoughts you might have about your day?
DR. ANIKA WARREN And after you’re dressed, what do you do next? You go straight to work? Do you stop and eat? Do you cook? Do you rush out the house or do you stay in the house than spend time with others? Doing whatever you want to do, whatever makes you feel like this is the job you’ve always wanted.
DR. ANIKA WARREN Now you leave home to go to work, how would you get there? Do you walk, take a bus, carpool, drive?
DR. ANIKA WARREN If you leave the place you were sleeping in, where do you open up into? A suburb, an urban community, a rural community? Are you in the US, Africa; are you at a tribe, safari land? Where?
DR. ANIKA WARREN If you were commuting to work, commuting to an activity for work, what would you see along the way? Who would you see? As you’re doing this, what thoughts and feelings are coming up for you about work?
DR. ANIKA WARREN Now it’s time to take up the task of the day, whatever you need to get done. What are you doing in your ideal job and what are you experiencing as you do it? What thoughts?
DR. ANIKA WARREN What feelings?
DR. ANIKA WARREN Do you see anything? People? Things?
DR. ANIKA WARREN Any other senses, smells, taste, anything else while you’re at work? As you continue these activities, what tools do you use? Clay, pencils, computers, what?
DR. ANIKA WARREN Are you interacting with people? If so, what type of people are they?
DR. ANIKA WARREN What activities do they do?
DR. ANIKA WARREN Moving through your work day, is there anything else you would like to experience at work that day? If so, what?
DR. ANIKA WARREN As your workday ends, what time is it?
DR. ANIKA WARREN Now what? It’s time to leave work, what will you do next? Do you meet someone for dinner? Do you take a nap? Do you go for a walk? Whatever you want to do after work.
30:00DR. ANIKA WARREN While you’re doing those activities and reflecting on that day of work.
DR. ANIKA WARREN What did you feel like that day?
DR. ANIKA WARREN What are you doing as your night winds down knowing that you have to go to work again tomorrow?
DR. ANIKA WARREN Now, what I’d like you to do is take deep breaths, breathing deeply in your nose and out your mouth. Two more. Breathing in your nose and out your mouth.
DR. ANIKA WARREN Now, whenever you’re ready, I’d like you to open your eyes.
DR. ANIKA WARREN Hope that experience was okay for you.
31:40ERIKA It’s very positive.
DR. ANIKA WARREN Okay. Now, what I’d like you to do is tell me, as you think about that activity, without describing it at first, what came up for you the most? “While thinking back, feeling back, this came up the most,” what was it?
32:00ERIKA I think some of my, some of my feelings that came up the most were just about how positive the experience was, ah, in a very natural environment for me… (crosstalk)
32:10DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …and fun… (crosstalk)
32:15DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …and rewarding.
ERIKA That’s what came up.
32:20DR. ANIKA WARREN So, positive, fun, natural and rewarding? Okay. Could you describe for us a little bit?
32:25ERIKA Uh hmm. Well, the, the natural part, because I, I had, without getting into the details of some of the things… (crosstalk)
32:35DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …that I was visualizing, the natural part was really about, uhm, balancing my life with my work.
32:40DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
32:45ERIKA And so, I liked the way you led me through the whole day from the time I get up until the time I go to sleep because it allowed me to visualize how it would be for me if my work was a part of my life but just one part of my life, and I was able to imagine, sort of, what my morning would be like and what my evening would be like outside of work.
33:05DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA And that felt very natural to me.
ERIKA And then, rewarding because, over the course of the day, I was able to make people feel very comfortable… (crosstalk)
33:15DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA and they trusted me… (crosstalk)
33:20DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …and that felt good. Uhm, and I said fun just because it was something that I liked.
33:30DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm. And positive?
33:35ERIKA Positive because I think the whole experience, like, I loved that exercise.
33:40DR. ANIKA WARREN Oh, good.
ERIKA And I think the whole experience was positive, and if I could find a way to replicate what I saw, that would be so positive for me.
33:45DR. ANIKA WARREN Great. The reason I asked you not to share the details first is because I really wanted to hear the themes, what stood out for you. (crosstalk)
33:50ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA WARREN And it’s interesting, uhm, positive, rewarding, any other things you described as how they might relate to past experiences and things you described the last time we met.
34:05ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA WARREN Now, I’d like you to share. You don’t have to share anything that you don’t feel necessary or appropriate or that might make you uncomfortable. I’d like you to share your day from beginning to end. Tell me… (crosstalk)
34:10ERIKA Okay.
DR. ANIKA WARREN …a little bit about it.
34:15ERIKA So, I woke up in my house… (crosstalk)
ERIKA …and when I opened my eyes, I was looking right out onto the ocean… (crosstalk)
34:20DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …because the, my wall was a window. It was just one big window, and it was right on the beach and I was looking out onto the ocean. And I didn’t wake up with an alarm clock. I woke up by the light of the sun so that felt really natural to me and. (crosstalk)
34:35DR. ANIKA WARREN Around what time?
34:40ERIKA Around 7:30.
ERIKA Seven o’clock. 7:30.
ERIKA And I got up and I had a, uhm, I was sleeping next to my husband , (crosstalk)
ERIKA my very loving husband .
34:50DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA Uhm, and I woke up and we had breakfast together, a nutritious breakfast, and I left the house, ah, maybe an hour and a half later… (crosstalk)
35:05DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …to walk to work… (crosstalk)
ERIKA …because I don’t live far… (crosstalk)
ERIKA …from where I work, so I was able to, sort of, walk, get a little bit of exercise, get my blood moving before starting the professional part of my day.
35:15DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA And I get to where I work.
DR. ANIKA WARREN What did you wear?
35:20ERIKA Ah, I didn’t think, oh, yeah, you asked me to think about that. I wore something that was very comfortable… (crosstalk)
35:25DR. ANIKA WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA I remember.
ERIKA Nothing restrictive, no suits, no, it was probably just something very flowy, open… (crosstalk)
35:30DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
35:35ERIKA Comfortable.
ERIKA And I walked to work and the place where I worked was a, ah, clinic where women come to deliver babies, like a birthing center.
35:45DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA And I was there with one woman who was ready to give birth, maybe that day or the next day, (crosstalk)
35:55DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA and we had a consultation. So, I was talking to her about what to expect of the birthing process and she was interested in giving birth in a tub of warm water.
36:10DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA So, like a water birth… (crosstalk)
ERIKA …with her partner, and I talked to her about that process and how that could be very good for her, you know, sort of a much less painful experience and also good for the baby with the transition from one watery environment… (crosstalk)
36:25DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …to another.
36:30DR. ANIKA K. WARREN So more like a midwife?
ERIKA Uh hmm.
ERIKA Yeah, I was a midwife.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Okay (laughs).
ERIKA And, uhm, so we talked about some of the details of, you know, how she’s been eating and how she’s been, uhm, taking care of herself… (crosstalk)
36:45DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …and the exercise she’s been doing and just everything was really, there was no, sort of, technical, linear, scientic, scientific intervention. Everything was just very human… (crosstalk)
36:55DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …and natural, which is, which is how I am.
ERIKA So, that was sort of the gist my day. And then, I thought a little bit about what it would be like to give birth. I didn’t, that wasn’t part of that day, but I thought about that because that also made me feel really good to help someone bring another life into the world. I just, that kinda makes my heart stop a little bit, and, uhm, so I thought about that. And then at the end of the day, I left work and it was about 4:00, (crosstalk)
37:25DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN so, 9:30 to about 4.
ERIKA (laughs) And. (crosstalk)
37:30DR. ANIKA K. WARREN You left?
ERIKA Coz it’s kind of, it’s not a very strenuous day. (laughs)
37:35DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA But maybe that’s not realistic.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN And you left because?
37:40ERIKA Well, because, realistically, I’d probably working harder. I’d probably working longer. I might even get up at two in the morning because someone goes into labor at two in the morning.
37:50DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Okay, you’re speaking realistically because of the field as well as. (crosstalk)
37:55ERIKA Right. As well as, maybe, I mean that was my day the way I imagined it, and so if it could be like that, that would be… (crosstalk)
38:00DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Ideal.
ERIKA The ideal situation. (crosstalk)
38:05DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm. Uh hmm.
ERIKA Uhm, and then I left, I left to go home and had dinner with my husband and he, we talked about our days, uhm, about what was great and what wasn’t so great and we sat down together in front of a fire and had a glass of wine, just real quiet as we read, sort of, separately, and then went to bed.
38:25DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Nice. Okay, I just wanna tell you a little bit about what I heard.
38:30ERIKA Okay.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN So what I heard is themes, not necessarily we’re gonna get into the detail of it all, but that balancing work and family is important to you.
38:40ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN And to have a job that is conveniently close to home.
38:45ERIKA Right.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN In an environment where you can feel so comfortable, safe, where you could help others.
38:50ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Make a different, do almost something that’s almost awe- inspiring.
38:55ERIKA Right.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN The work you do in Africa, currently, as well as giving birth to someone just gives you this awe feeling… (crosstalk)
39:00ERIKA Yeah.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …I think that’s what you were describing when you say. (crosstalk)
ERIKA Absolutely.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN And that, uhm, being, having some stability would be really nice, although you, you, you’re owning that this particular occupation, with you being a midwife is not, uhm, necessarily conducive to a 9:30-to-4 job.
39:15ERIKA Not necessarily.
39:20DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Like, somehow you do appreciate that. Another thing that I heard you saying is that being able to spend time with loved ones… (crosstalk)
39:25ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …and focus on your day… (crosstalk)
ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …and connect with them is important to you.
39:30ERIKA Uh hmm.
ERIKA And the other thing I forgot to mention is that, uhm, one thing that came to mind before going to bed was that when I left work, I actually went to a ballroom dance class with my husband .
39:40DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Okay.
ERIKA And, uhm, coz we’re learning how to dance together so we can go out and be able to do it right.
39:45DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Well.
ERIKA So that was, that was, that was a piece of my day.
39:50DR. ANIKA K. WARREN So you’re talking about enjoying your day… (crosstalk)
ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …and not just at work, but having some time to enjoy other things you’re working on, (crosstalk)
39:55ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN with your partner ?
ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Okay, great. So, what I’d like to do now is I’d like to talk a little bit about, just in general, if you could tell me, uhm, some of your professional goals… (crosstalk)
40:05ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …that you’ve had over time? Like, the first job you ever imagined having, what was that?
40:10ERIKA Uhm, well the first job I ever imagined having, uhm, I thought I wanted to be, well, I don’t know if this was the first job that I ever imagined having, but when I was young, I wanted to be a diplomat, like, I thought about being an ambassador, uhm, just coz some of my, because of some of my international experience. I thought about be, being a lawyer.
40:35DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA Uhm, I thought about being a doctor, (crosstalk)
40:40DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA social worker, (crosstalk)
ERIKA and, uhm, most recently, I’ve been thinking about this midwife… (crosstalk) thing.
40:45DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …thing. I’ve been thinking about that quite a bit.
40:50DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Hmm. All those are very professional, very, if I say professional in the sense that professional occupation.
40:55ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uhm, and less, they’re less, they’re more traditional… (crosstalk)
41:00ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN roles and traditional jobs. And I remember earlier we spoke about the people of color at your current job versus the people who were white… (crosstalk)
41:10ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN and the different roles they’ve had… (crosstalk)
41:15ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …and I’m wondering you having all these interests in these very professional and appropriate, safe, su, conservative, type jobs. (crosstalk)
41:20ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN What that’s about for you?
41:25ERIKA Well, I think having grown up just, sort of, under the eye of my father , who’s, he’s very practical… (crosstalk)
41:30DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …and pragmatic about everything and he doesn’t like to spend a lot of money if he feels like it’s gonna empty something, you know? He’s about making sure that everything has a time and a place and… (crosstalk)
41:45DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …and so I think that sort of pragmatism comes from him and I feel like I can’t necessarily pursue some of the things that might be my hobbies… (crosstalk)
41:55DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …as a career because I feel like I have to have stability, I have to have, uhm, a steady stream of income, I have to be able to contribute to taking care of my family and, uhm, and so that, so that practical side has informed a lot of these, sort of professional ideas about careers.
42:15DR. ANIKA K. WARREN And so in many ways, his lifestyle and priorities, you’ve, kind of, internalized these as your own.
42:25ERIKA Yeah, they’ve translated down, definitely.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Okay. You did also mention earlier that you’re in theater while growing up and a variety of things that you enjoyed doing… (crosstalk)
42:30ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …and extracurricular activities and then you just mentioned hobbies.
42:35ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN So I’m wondering if you could talk a little bit about that piece. Like, what are those hobbies that you’re saying aren’t pragmatic enough for you to consider as an occupation?
42:45ERIKA Well, I love that ah, I’ve always loved drama, being on stage… (crosstalk)
42:50DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA singing, just something that I love to do. Uhm, playing a musical instrument, which I did a little bit when I was a kid, but then I stopped, like a lot of kids do.
43:05DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA And I, uhm, I, I loved the way it feels for me to be creative like that.
ERIKA I love what it makes me feel like inside and how I can express myself when I feel so, I feel so free when I’m doing it.
43:20DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA And like I talked about the dancing class. When I’m dancing, I feel free, I just feel free, and I haven’t been able to marry the idea of having that kind of fun… (crosstalk)
ERIKA …in my professional life. I don’t know how to do it… (crosstalk)
ERIKA …’coz I don’t feel like I could be good enough at any of that stuff to really make money.
43:35DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA Uhm, (crosstalk)
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN I just want to comment. When you started talking about the art forms that you enjoy, you lit up. (laugh) You were much more expressive and you seemed a little bit more excited about it.
43:45ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN And when you talked about the jobs that you perceive to be a little bit more pragmatic and responsible and financially… (crosstalk)
43:50ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …relevant or appropriate for you, you were more neutral.
43:55ERIKA Yeah.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN And I think you also raised an interesting point when you said you don’t know how to, like, bring them together, and one thing that I like to work on in career counseling is helping people determine whether your objective is to integrate all of these things, integrate your skills and your interests, your values and your goals, your talents, if, if you wanna integrate them into an occupation or if you want to have separate aspects of your life.
44:20ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Everyone has a variety of ways that they want to live their life, whether they want their passion to be about art or not. This sounds like for you one of the driving forces is being able to have financial stability.
44:30ERIKA Yeah.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN And your concern is, if I understand you correctly, is that if I choose these art forms, that, one, I may not be successful enough, two, I may not get a job or be stable.
44:40ERIKA Right… (crosstalk)
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN If. (crosstalk)
ERIKA …that’s exactly, that’s exactly it.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN So the, the pragmatic piece outweighs.
44:45ERIKA Uh-huh.
Career Counseling Skill 4: Discussion Questions 1. How might the “shoulds” that the client has internalized relate to her race? 2. How might the “shoulds” that the client has internalized relate to her gender? 3. After her guided discovery experience, the client presents the challenge of trying to blend work and family. Reflecting on your understanding of career counseling and development, how might you help the client work through her concerns about balancing work and family? Career Counseling Skill 4: Comments This segment provides examples of using guided discovery/careern visualization process. It also illustrates how to transition from guided discovery process to career counseling work. Leong and Hartung suggest that the counselor may implement career assessments and other interventions once the client’s career problems and background have been evaluated. Career Counseling Skill 5: Processing career assessment results.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Processing career assessment results begins with the thorough understanding of the client. Career assessments are important tools used to guide the client through the career exploration process. Erika, thank you for bringing in your results. What I did is I made a copy of the material so we could both look at it simultaneously.
46:10ERIKA Okay.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN What I want you to do is to, here’s a copy, I’ll have you work from there… (crosstalk)
46:15ERIKA Uh-huh.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …and , uhm, I usually keep some of the original material.
46:20ERIKA Sure.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uhm, what I want you to do is tell me a little bit about your, uhm, assessment booklet. I’m looking at page three. What were some of the occupation that you outlined?
46:35ERIKA Uhm, well, they were the same as the one’s I had mentioned to you the last time we met. And, uhm, I have in here lawyer, teacher, nutritionist, social worker, doctor and midwife.
46:50DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Okay. One thing I need you to do for our next meeting is, you can write this down if you need to… (crosstalk)
46:55ERIKA Uh-huh.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …but you remember that’s fine… (crosstalk)
ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN ‘coz I want you to go and find the occupational quotes for these jobs… (crosstalk)
47:00ERIKA Okay.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN That you’ve selected.
47:05ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Okay? Because now you have your three character code, which you will tell me in a sec. Uhm, I would, I would be curious to see what things you have been interested in in the past and how would they relate to… (crosstalk)
47:15ERIKA Sure.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN And I also noticed here in the first page, you didn’t put much about some of your artistic stuff, like dancing and theater. These are all the still… (crosstalk)
47:20ERIKA Yeah.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …so pragmatic, is… (crosstalk)
47:25ERIKA Uh-huh.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …these pragmatic occupations are really still there.
ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Okay. Great. Tell me a little bit about what was it was like doing this assessment?
47:30ERIKA Well, it was really interesting because I have found that, uhm, even though I don’t feel like the artistic stuff, it’s very practical for me, professionally speaking. I found that it, it’s part of my highest interest.
47:45DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
47:50ERIKA And, uhm, that was sort of equal to, sort of, social type of professions, giving back, helping people, that kind of stuff. So they kind of on part with each other.
48:00DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Okay, uhm, (crosstalk)
ERIKA But it was interesting coz it was like a self-discovering experience, which is nice.
48:05DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Oh good, good. Let’s go to the back. I want to hear a little bit about what your, uhm, summary code is.
48:10ERIKA Okay.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN What was your highest?
ERIKA My highest was the A, which I think is the artistic.
48:15DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh-huh.
ERIKA Uhm, and I scored highest there and just neck and neck with that is the S… (crosstalk)
48:20DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA Which is, uhm, (crosstalk)
48:25ERIKA …social.
ERIKA And those are my two highest, and then just under that was I, which was, which is investigative… (crosstalk)
48:30DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …and so those were my three highest, and it went from, the artistic was the highest and then social was the next highest… (crosstalk)
48:35DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Okay.
ERIKA …and then investigative.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN And I see here from your total scores that artistic was a 27, (crosstalk)
48:40ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN social was a 26, (crosstalk)
48:45ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN investigative was a 19.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Okay. Great. Did you have the chance to look at the booklet that explained a little bit about you and your career?
48:50ERIKA Yeah, I did. (crosstalk)
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Let’s talk about that a little bit because here in your scores, the A and the S, they’re, they’re not that differentiated. So… (crosstalk)
49:00ERIKA No.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …they’re only a point apart which basically suggests that your A and your S are pretty much a similar score.
49:05ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN But they’re very far apart from your I… (crosstalk)
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …which is investigative. So it seems like occupationally, based upon this, that careers that are high in art, arts and high in social are very appropriate for someone like you.
49:20ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uhm, coz that’s a very interesting, but it’s also, let’s look. Looks like the C you have is 17, so your, and in investigative you have a 19… (crosstalk)
49:30ERIKA Right.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …so when you look at investigative and you look at that C score, it looks like they’re slightly similar… (crosstalk)
49:35ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …to one another. So that might be something else we’ll have you consider later on for our next meeting.
49:40ERIKA Okay.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN So lets talk a little about the next step. When you look at your summary code… (crosstalk)
49:45ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …and you look up at some of the occupations in occupational finder.
49:50ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN What are some of the occupations that came up that you, in general?
49:55ERIKA In general, they, they were in the arts. (laughs) Uhm, there was one that was a painter.
50:00DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh-huh.
ERIKA And there was one that was a dance therapist.
50:00ERIKA And there were several others but I didn’t really feel that connected with them. These are two that I felt most connected with especially the dance therapist.
50:10DR. ANIKA K. WARREN And that’s what stood out for you the most?
ERIKA That’s what stood out, uh hmm,
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN For those… (crosstalk)
ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …and that’s using the ASI quote. (crosstalk)
50:15ERIKA : Uh hmm. In that order.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Okay. And I also wanted you to kinda switch up at the order to look at the combinations of quotes as which the book tells you to do as well… (crosstalk)
50:20ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …so SAI and ISA, and all those variations to see if any other quotes speak to things you wouldn’t mind doing.
50:25ERIKA Yeah.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Were there any other things that stood out for you?
50:30ERIKA There a couple. I mean some of the ones that, uhm, were part of that sort of different combination of letters. (crosstalk)
50:35DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA There was speech therapist. There was teacher and there were other things, and I’m, I’m not, I didn’t feel so connected to those but there were, uhm, there was nurse and then nurse practitioner, and, ah, the nurse practitioner kinda stood out for me just because that’s, uhm, that, that kind of work is, is something where I could be a primary caregiver… (crosstalk)
50:55DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …for someone. And that, that spoke to me a little bit. Sort of as to a prac, on a practical level without including any of the creative sort of artsy things… (crosstalk)
51:00DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …it… (crosstalk)
51:05ERIKA …stood, it stood out for me.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN So pulling on that I.
ERIKA Uh hmm.
ERIKA A little bit, yeah.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN And everything I wanted to talk about is on that hexagon where it has all of the different letters… (crosstalk)
51:10ERIKA Yeah.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …the reesect(ph) letters, that’s what we call them.
51:15ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN There is an A and S and the I. And the A and the S are right next to each other.
51:20ERIKA Uhm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN And the I is right next to them as well… (crosstalk)
ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …so you have all three.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN So that suggest that if you find an occupation and an environment that fits your interest, those, that you’ll will be very congruent, that there’s congruency between what you want to do and the type of environment that might work for you.
51:35ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN So it’s actually a good thing.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN And, uhm, what’s interesting is when you’re talking about this nurse practitioner standing out for you, I think that that quotes starts with an I?
51:40ERIKA That quotes starts with an I, yup.
51:45DR. ANIKA K. WARREN So in many ways although your I score wasn’t, you know, eight degrees different from your A score.
51:50ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN You are still pulling on things that have that I.
51:55ERIKA Absolutely.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN And that I think that’s something to really reflect on for you in particular the current occupation you have as well as some of the things you’ve shared thus far is that you tend to be more safe and pragmatic and responsible, consider finances… (crosstalk)
52:05ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …but you still have that A, S stuff pulling on you.
52:10DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Definitely.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN So to really think about what that means.
ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN And I know last time we spoke, one of the things I asked you to do was to think about how you will want to integrate your need to be artistic with your need to give back and help others and be pragmatic and, have you had any thoughts about that process?
52:25ERIKA I did. I thought about it a little bit and I, I feel like, I think because these, sort of the ideas of being very creative and, uhm, artsy are, is so disconnected from what I sort of perceive myself as professionally. I have felt, I thought about ways that I might be able to bring the two together.
52:45DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA And I know that I could in a private practice as far as making someone, you know, creating an environment in my work space, like being artistic in that way… (crosstalk)
52:55DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …about creating a very comfortable and nurturing environment and finding the artistic ways to do that, I think that would be very fun for me. Uhm, but I also feel like I would want to probably just pursue very specific artistic, uhm, activities outside of work because I think that it would help me to be a more rounded person and it will also help me, it will also tuck(ph), a take, it would help to take mind away from work. So, you know, I was thinking about maybe taking a painting class, (crosstalk)
53:25DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm
ERIKA or sculpting class, or something like that and having, you know, being able to express myself in that way and brings with the outfits of those experiences into my home… (crosstalk)
53:35DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …or into my work, like, you know, a painting that I did… (crosstalk)
53:40DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Uh hmm.
ERIKA …or a piece of art, or something like that, and I think that would be really fulfilling for me.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN That sounds wonderful, can also be very thera, therapeutic… (crosstalk)
53:45ERIKA Yeah.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …very relaxing, allows you to kind of accentuate many of your interests, values, and skills simultaneously.
53:50ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN So I do like that.
ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN Okay. Next, what I would really like to do, uhm, is talk a little bit about what, what I like you to think about for next week with regard to these scores… (crosstalk)
54:00ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …is I want you to see if there’s anything with the C combination or anything else that might interest you.
54:05ERIKA Okay.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN And I don’t know if there will be, but I think its important kind of open up… (crosstalk)
54:10ERIKA Uh hmm.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …these results and see what else might be out there just ‘coz, this is really just a snapshot… (crosstalk)
54:15ERIKA Sure.
DR. ANIKA K. WARREN …to give you an idea. And then another thing is, select about five occupations that you’re interested in and not necessarily all the pragmatic ones, including dance and theatre, and I’d like you to do a little research on those.
54:25ERIKA Okay. (crosstalk)